Peter Steinfeld: Hello and welcome to The Employee Safety Podcast from AlertMedia, where you’ll hear advice from industry leaders on how to protect your people and business. I’m Peter Steinfeld.

Today’s guest is Michael Julian, founder of the A.L.I.V.E. Active Shooter Survival Program, a training approach designed to help people prepare for and respond to acts of violence.

In this episode, Michael shares why mindset matters in high stress moments and what organizations can do to implement workplace violence training that’s practical, empowering, and effective when it matters most. Here’s our conversation. Hey, Michael, thanks for being here.

Michael Julian: Pleasure to be here, Peter.

Peter Steinfeld: So how did you get into the security world and what ultimately led you to build the A.L.I.V.E. program?

Michael Julian: Well, I gotta go way back. My father started the company, my company, in 1967 after being in the military and then law enforcement.

And then he went out and started his own company, private investigations and security and protection. So I was born into and raised in this industry my entire life. It’s all I’ve ever known, it’s all I’ve ever done.

And now both my kids work in the company, so we’re third generation and as far as I know, the oldest company of its kind that is family owned and operated.

Peter Steinfeld: And was he doing something similar when he founded the company or did this morph into that over time?

Michael Julian: Well, he didn’t do active shooter training. That wasn’t a thing while he was alive. He died in 1997. But his personal security and personal protection was a big part of what he did.

So I was brought up with the mindset of situational awareness, security, being proactive, that sort of thing.

Peter Steinfeld: Okay. And as you saw the zeitgeist change a bit and there was more of a need for this, the program evolved out of that?

Michael Julian: Oh, definitely. Yeah.

Peter Steinfeld: Okay, very good.

So for those hearing about it for the first time, what is A.L.I.V.E. and what makes it different from other workplace violence trainings that people may have encountered?

Michael Julian: A.L.I.V.E. is an active shooter survival training program and method that I created in 2013. And what’s different than other programs? Like it is, everybody’s heard of run, hide, fight. It’s like stop, drop, and roll.

It’s real easy to remember, but it’s all focused on physical methodology. Running, hiding, and fighting is all stuff you do with your body. The problem is with the human brain and human psyche.

Sometimes when it’s bombarded with stimulus, it goes crazy. The wires cross, it shuts down and it stops sending the signal from the brain to the body telling the body to run, hide, fight.

So I thought it was important to address that. And it’s an acronym for assess, leave, impede, violence, and expose. And it’s all in chronological order. So the first thing is assess.

It’s all mental. Stop. Take a deep breath and focus on what is going on. Push every other stimulus out.

Don’t get scared, and see the faces of your loved ones and think, I’m never going to see them again. If you’re going to do that, picture the faces of your loved ones and say, I’m going to see them tonight when I go home, no matter what happens.

So you assess the situation, and then you evaluate what your next steps are. The next steps are leave, impede and violence. And leave, impede and violence are the same basically as run, hide, fight.

But if your brain is not prepared for what has happened, if you’re not ready for this type of overwhelming stimulus of hearing shots and people screaming and possibly seeing people bleeding, it can paralyze you. Because fight, flight and freeze are our natural reaction to violence or fear. And we want to eliminate freezing from that process.

So first you assess, then you leave, if you can. If you can’t, then you impede the killer’s ability to get to you by creating time and space.

And if that’s not an option, unfortunately, we may have to commit violence against this person, and a lot of people have a real problem with that. But if it’s a decision between them and me, you’ve got to get home to the people you love.

So you have to make the decision to actually commit violence against them.

And then the E is for expose your position, because oftentimes people have thought it was over, and then they exposed where they were, and then they were hurt, or they exposed their position and law enforcement engaged them. And that’s not a good thing either.

Peter Steinfeld: And you started by mentioning that people’s mindset totally changes when they’re confronted with violence, which totally makes sense.

You know, I’ve always joked throughout the years that being involved in business continuity that everyone’s IQ drops 20 points when something bad happens. It’s not that you’re suddenly getting dumber. It’s just that you’re freaked out. You’re not used to this situation.

So in your experience, what traditionally occurs in those first moments of an act of violence?

Michael Julian: Well, that shock of what is happening, it’s disbelief. They’re thinking, no, this can’t be happening, because they’re in denial, and that is not a good place to be.

So you have to push back all of the thoughts of terror that could cause you to freeze and default to your training. And we’ve seen this. I actually have a survivor, and I can tell you about that later.

That proved this to me, that when it happened, she realized what was happening and went, wait a minute, I was trained on this. I’ve got to do that. And she defaulted to her training, and she told me it saved her life.

So you have to control the mind, and we can control our minds if we believe we can. We can if we think, oh, my God, this is so horrible, what is happening. And all of a sudden, the wires start crossing.

You then are paralyzed in fear, and then you can’t do what you need to do.

Peter Steinfeld: So how do you help people prepare mentally for these types of incidents?

Michael Julian: Well, in my training, I show some videos of actual active shooter events. Some companies that I train don’t want the videos because they don’t want to startle their employees or create PTSD.

I don’t do it that way. Other companies have done that, and it’s created some real problems.

But I introduced them to the idea and the reality of this type of situation so that once they see it and they know what it looks like, they’ve now been not numbed, but now they’re aware of it and their brain understands it, so it’s not a total shock. So when it happens, they revert to their training and go, okay, I know what this is about. I’ve seen this, and I now know what I need to do.

So they focus on what they’re supposed to do to survive the situation.

Peter Steinfeld: Yeah, I think that’s so important is that people will revert to their training in an emergency. So my question to you then is, how much training does someone need to revert to this?

Is it like just one session, or is it something you got to do, like, every month, once a quarter, once a year?

Michael Julian: Any training is better than no training except for bad training.

And some companies like mine will actually scare people by having one of their people come through the back door and pretend to be an active shooter to startle them. I disagree with that, and I’ve prohibited any — I’ve got over 400 instructors in seven countries.

I prohibit any of my instructors from doing anything that their students are not prepared for. And I say, I would never throw a baseball at your face before I taught you how to catch a baseball.

Peter Steinfeld: Love that.

Michael Julian: They need to understand what to do. It’s so important that people are prepared mentally for it. And I talk about two kinds of mindsets in my training.

Security mindset and survival mindset. Now security mindset is anytime you’re taking training, you’re learning something.

You’re learning self defense, you’re avoiding potentially dangerous situations, you’re practicing what you do — fire drills — you’re in security mindset. When the event happens, everything stops. And now you go into survival mindset.

And in survival mindset, you’re now utilizing everything you learned in security mindset. And you should be in security mindset every day, all the time. That doesn’t mean being paranoid, it just means being prepared and ready.

So we teach situational awareness and that’s just being cognizant of what’s going on around you — have your eyes and your ears open and scanning subconsciously.

Oftentimes, if you’re ready for this and you do the training, you’re subconsciously picking up different things that may be a red flag that will then turn your conscious on and go, wait a minute, it’s a hot day. And that person just walked in with a big heavy coat on and they look kind of wired and disheveled and they don’t quite fit.

So then you can focus on that person and start creating a plan for what may happen next.

Peter Steinfeld: How good or bad are people, generally speaking, at situational awareness before they go through a course like yours?

Michael Julian: That all depends on their upbringing, their training, their education, their mindset. Some people are situationally oblivious. Some people live in a state of denial.

Because if you never think about the bad things that can happen, what a state of bliss that is. You’re never stimulating your nervous system to be in fight or flight.

So you’re just kind of going along with the rose colored glasses on, denying the possibility of danger. But danger in this day and age exists around us everywhere because we cannot predict what other people will do.

And people are doing bad things all the time for no reason. So if you’re not ready to accept that situation, you’re not preparing yourself for survival if it happens.

Peter Steinfeld: You know, I’m wondering and I’m curious what you found in all the trainings that you’ve done and your company has done. Has situational awareness improved or has it gotten worse over time?

Michael Julian: Well, I think it’s probably gotten better simply because with social media, everyone’s got access to information and even if you’re flipping through Facebook, you’re seeing these stories come up about bad things that are happening around the world. So I think people are just naturally — it’s more front of mind because they’re seeing it happen more often than they ever did before.

Peter Steinfeld: Okay, okay. But they’re not stuck in their phones and not paying attention to things — like you don’t see that?

Michael Julian: No, no, no, that’s not true. Many people are. And I literally make that example and I talk about women specifically.

If you’re walking through a dark parking lot at night, do not have your face in your phone or in your purse. Stand up tall, shoulders back, chin up, scanning for danger.

Because if you have that presence, a would-be predator is less likely to target you because they see you are aware of what’s going on and you may be a harder target. They’re going to take the path of least resistance.

So if somebody’s got their head in their purse or their phone, they’re going to be an easy target because they’ll have the element of surprise. But if someone’s looking around, seeing what’s going on, they’re not going to be an easy target.

So a predator is much less likely to prey on that person.

Peter Steinfeld: Yeah, I think that’s so crucial. It reminds me — man, this goes back many years.

I think I was maybe 11 or 12 years old and I took a self defense class from a lady who was five feet tall. She was the judo champ of Hawaii back in her day. And that was the first thing she said.

You will avoid most all bad situations if you just keep yourself situationally aware and you stare people down if it’s appropriate. Right. You don’t want to encourage someone on. And she would do that.

She would be in dangerous places and she just would make sure she made eye contact with people so they knew she was aware of them. And it absolutely worked for her. She never had to use that judo.

Michael Julian: Absolutely. You look them in the eye and let them know, I see you and I’m ready.

Peter Steinfeld: Well, our audience works across a really wide variety of industries and work environments. How do you adapt this training for different types of settings, different roles or just levels of responsibility?

Michael Julian: Well, the fundamentals of my program are the same and they can be applied across any platform, any situation, any workplace. When we do it, we will tailor it to say healthcare or schools or factory.

Obviously if somebody learns this in their environment where they’re spending time every day. And so I say, okay, now it’s time to start thinking about — look for a weapon.

Now they can look around in their familiar environment and they can see a wrench or they can see a fire extinguisher. So when we do what we call modules — Module A is classroom. That’s when we teach the fundamentals.

But when we do Module B, we actually go into their workplace where they spend their time, and they’re comfortable and familiar. And that’s when we talk about weapons or escape routes or whatever — then it applies to where they spend most of their day.

Peter Steinfeld: Now, you’ve been leading this program for over a decade. Can you share a time, like you mentioned before, where you’ve seen this program make a real impact in one of these situations?

Michael Julian: Sure. I started researching in 2013, and I launched it in 2014.

In 2014, I was hired to come into a company, and there was about 87 employees, and I taught them the program.

And then two and a half, three years later, in 2017, I got an email from a woman named Liz Moreno that said, hey, you probably don’t remember me, but blah, blah, blah, I was in your class. I thought it was a good program, but I didn’t think much of it after that. But then she was at the Las Vegas Mandalay Bay massacre.

It was the biggest active shooter mass killing in United States history. And she said, I was there with my boyfriend watching Jason Aldean. And all of a sudden we heard pop, pop, pop.

And everybody thought it was firecrackers. So we didn’t really think much of it.

But she said, then I turned around and I saw a woman shot in the face and a man shot in the chest right behind me.

Peter Steinfeld: Oh, my gosh.

Michael Julian: She said, at that point, I knew what was happening. I grabbed my boyfriend, we hit the ground. And then she said, at that moment, I went, wait a minute. I’ve had training to address this situation.

I know what to do. And she turned to her boyfriend and she says, we’ve got to go. And he said, no, we’ve got to shelter in place.

Which unfortunately is taught at schools — lockdown and so forth. But survival methods are not cookie cutter. They have to be adapted to the situation. So she said, we’ve got to go.

And he said, no, we’ve got to shelter in place. And she said, look, I’ve been through training. I know what to do. I’m leaving with or without you. And he said, okay.

So they jumped up, grabbed hands, and took off running.

And she told me, when I met her, she said, I believe that your training saved my life because I’ve got pictures that I show in my training of the grassy area in front of the stage littered with dead bodies. And she says, I truly believe that I would have been killed had we not left.

Peter Steinfeld: Wow, that’s an amazing story. Is there something that you train people to do to snap their brains out of that initial shock — like they just snap their fingers and it causes them to shift into that survival mode like you mentioned?

Michael Julian: Yeah. I say the first thing is as soon as you hear those shots, you may go into denial or you may be processing what is happening.

You may think it’s a car backfiring. And you stop, you take a deep breath. Because as soon as the adrenaline hits, your heart starts pumping three times faster.

And now your organs are starving for oxygen. I say stop, take a deep breath and visualize this funnel. Okay.

And all of the stimulus and everything that’s going on goes into this funnel and comes down and it comes out and it’s kind of corny, but it works. And I say what comes out is this red hot ball of energy.

And you’re going to take that ball and shove it in your chest like Tony Stark — Iron Man — he’s got that nuclear reactor power plant. You shove it in your chest and it empowers you. And suddenly you’re bigger than life. And now you do whatever it takes.

Everything slows down and you just stop and you push out all the external thoughts. The only thing you focus on is what you do to survive.

Peter Steinfeld: I love that. That’s such great advice. Training around violence can be very difficult.

So how do you train in a way that feels realistic and practical while still being mindful of the psychological impact that these topics can have? And you alluded to it before — like, you don’t have your instructors run in and pretend like there’s an active shooter.

Michael Julian: So what do we do in Module B? We actually walk through the five steps, but we go just normal speed. We don’t go fast. We don’t have people staged by the door and take people down.

You don’t have a guy walk in in a padded suit. We don’t beat them up, we don’t throw things at them. You don’t have to stick your finger into the fire and get burned to know that it’ll hurt you.

But if you put your finger close enough, you’ll feel the heat. So we go slow and methodically through the five steps of A.L.I.V.E.

Peter Steinfeld: And what’s some of the feedback that you get from people? How does their attitude change from when they first show up in the class and you haven’t said a word to 15, 20, 30 minutes — an hour in?

Michael Julian: In the comments we get more than anything on the evaluation forms — the second question is, what did you like the least about the program? Most people always say, I didn’t like the videos. Now the videos — I set them up and I tell them about the video so that they’re prepared.

You don’t see blood, you don’t see gore. You could turn on the TV on Saturday morning at 9am and see 10 times worse stuff, right?

But you see people, you see bad guys shooting and people that end up dying. You don’t see the blood and gore. So it’s not overwhelmingly shocking.

So they don’t get PTSD, but they say, I didn’t like the videos and then immediately followed up with, but I’m glad I saw it because it made it real. They see what actually can happen and that’s what will prepare them for when it happens. So they’re slightly desensitized to it.

So it’s not the first time their brain sees that type of thing. So it’s not a shock. They see it — not in an overwhelmingly violent way, but they see it.

And now they can adapt to what is happening and then methodically and rationally respond to it rather than emotionally.

If you’ve ever been in an argument with your spouse or a loved one and they hit you below the belt with something, knowing that it’s going to hurt you — that’s going to bother you and you react emotionally, it’s going to escalate that situation. If you take a deep breath and you rationally respond calmly, it’s going to deescalate the situation.

Peter Steinfeld: Do you think most of the people that you work with realize how paralyzing fear can be when they’re first confronted with some kind of violence?

Michael Julian: They will only truly realize it if they’ve been through a situation and experienced it.

Peter Steinfeld: Well, you’re clearly passionate about this work. So beyond surviving a violent event, what do you hope people take away from this training more broadly?

Michael Julian: My program is about empowerment.

And once you go through my program, people have told me this before — you can use this method to overcome any challenge because it’s about not responding reactively to the stimulus or to whatever is happening and reacting inappropriately or emotionally. It’s about identifying a challenge, centering yourself, and then overcoming that challenge.

It could be — some people freak out when they take tests they shouldn’t because they know everything, but they’re under pressure. They put pressure on themselves because they think, oh, my God, I’ve got to pass this test.

So they freak out and then they start doing the wrong thing. It can be driving home knowing that you’re about to have a very difficult conversation with a loved one.

And by the time you get there, you’re so wound up that you can’t even speak properly. Any challenge in your life, this program teaches you to identify it, size it up, and rationally respond to it.

Peter Steinfeld: And I think that’s the key — the reason we freeze like a deer in the headlights is because we don’t have a pretty process that we work through. And it sounds like this program gives you that ability to just stop, start thinking clearly, and then go through a process. Work the process.

Michael Julian: Yep, that’s correct.

Peter Steinfeld: Well, before we wrap up, where can our listeners go if they want to learn more about the A.L.I.V.E. program or explore training for their organization?

Michael Julian: My goal is for every person on this planet to have this training one way or another. I don’t care if they pay for it or it’s free. It’s not about money. It’s about empowering people in situations like this and any challenge.

So I started teaching it and then I wrote my book, which became a bestseller on Amazon. It’s called 10 Minutes to Live: Surviving an Active Shooter Using A.L.I.V.E.

And then I thought, well, between the book and myself, not everyone’s going to get it. So then I started a Train the Trainer program. That’s why I have over 400 instructors in seven countries.

And then I thought, well, that’s not good enough.

And then I created an online program so you can go to the website, which is activeshootersurvivaltraining.com and then you can book in-person training. You can buy the book or you can get the online training. So there’s multiple ways for people to get this training.

Peter Steinfeld: Well, Michael, I think your work’s incredibly important. Thank you so much for being on the show today.

Michael Julian: It’s my pleasure, Peter. Thank you.

Peter Steinfeld: To learn more about Michael and his work with A.L.I.V.E., click the links in the episode description. You can also watch the video highlights on AlertMedia’s YouTube channel. Don’t forget to subscribe, rate and review the show wherever you get your podcasts. Stay safe out there.

Outro: Thank you for listening to The Employee Safety Podcast from AlertMedia, the world’s leading provider of risk intelligence and response solutions. To learn more about how to protect your people and business during critical incidents, visit alertmedia.com.